Comments on: Change You Can Believe In

By: David

David — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 05:15:48 +0000

I would like to see anyone who believes there are real substantive differences between those political figures in any area besides social policy (where I admitted that some difference might be found) to show some evidence of those differences. Obviously there are some significant differences of style or rhetoric, but in the end even the order to close Guantanamo did not change the fact that the new administration is fighting in the middle east much like the previous administration. They focus on the withdrawal date, but that is significantly closer to the status of forces agreement that the Bush administration made than it is to the campaign promises of Obama. Had McCain become president by some miracle a withdrawal similar to what Obama is doing would have been much more likely than the 100 year occupation that McCain was accused of promoting.

You must live in a very narrow reality if it is a stretch to say that McCain, Obama, and Bush are more alike in practice than they are different (and more alike in practice than in rhetoric).

By: jasonthe

jasonthe — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:30:53 +0000

Frank is right about where real conservatives should have ended up during the campaign, but David, honestly, it is hard to take a post seriously when it begins with a statement that there is little difference between Obama, McCain, and Bush.

I’d argue such a statement warrants a bit more backup sourcing and example than you’ve provided, lest the entire premise be based on a supposition that is far too easy to poke holes in, simply because there is little truth behind it.

The argument you make can be made (and would carry more weight) without stretching the boundaries of reality in order to make it.

By: David

David — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:25:31 +0000

Frank,

You were among the foremost people in my mind when I wrote about “conservative Republicans who opposed John McCain even after he was the last Republican Presidential Candidate of 2008.”

I applaud your frankness on so many subjects. (No pun intended.)

By: Frank Staheli

Frank Staheli — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:13:04 +0000

I was a broken record on this subject during the campaign. That's why I was dismayed that Reach Upward and others scoffed at the idea that Ron Paul was the only real alternative.

By: David

David — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:51:15 +0000

Some of us are eager to take on the challenging task of changing the political culture. (No, I have no illusions that it will be guaranteed, fast, or easy.) You are right though about why the two parties stay so close to “center.” The key is to help define a new center around which they can orient themselves – one that recognizes a few economic realities for example.

By: Reach Upward

Reach Upward — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:33:51 +0000

I do not believe that most people favor radical change. It is for this reason that most of our political debates revolve around a handful of relatively fringe issues. We strain at the gnat but swallow the camel.

Actually, most people don’t want to change the camel much. They just want normalcy. Each major party consists of such a large conglomeration of interests that neither can help but be relatively close to center.

Our politicians operate in a political culture that attracts and retains people that function well within that culture. Most of us wouldn’t consider it a very pleasant culture. As with any statistical model, there are the outliers — politicians that are either unusually good or unusually bad — but most group around the average of the culture.

If you want to change the way our politicians act, you have to change the political culture in which they operate. That is a very challenging task that nobody wants to take on in real life.